The ‘legal investigation, therefore I’m ziplocked’ hasn’t prevented Philip Davies, long standing Tory MP for Shipley and long standing supporter of the gaming industry.
In an email exchange with me he said (among other things) “Inside information is not cheating by any definition of it. If that was the case there would be hundreds of people a day who bet on Horseracing arrested and prosecuted.
If the Police, CPS and Gambling Commission want to embarrass themselves by pursuing a prosecution which hasn’t the first chance of being successful then that is a matter for them.”
That’s the closest thing I’ve heard to a GFY reply.
Unsurprising from Davies. I've been a recipient more than once of his rude and dismissive replies to perfectly polite emails. It hasn't gone unnoticed by other people within Shipley - his rudeness has been brought up several times while I've been canvassing in the constituency.
Using insider information isn’t cheating? Depends on the definition of “insider information”. If you have privileged information about a company it is if you use it to trade in shares in it, or to bet on horses if you know private things about the horse or the race which could affect the result. To suggest that using inside information that the election will be called at a particular time is not fraud is ridiculous.
See the case cited below the ratio of which reads :
“In this 2017 case, a gambler who had used edge-sorting (a type of card counting) to win at baccarat in a casino said he was not cheating but deploying ‘a perfectly legitimate advantage.’ The Court held that he had, in fact, cheated, and that the casino could withhold his winnings, even though he did not consider his acts to be dishonest. In that case, the ‘essentials’ of cheating were held to “normally involve a deliberate (and not an accidental) act designed to gain an advantage in the play which is objectively improper, given the nature, parameters and rules (formal or informal) of the game under examination” (para 47).”
Objectively speaking all the examples I gave involved someone with inside knowledge (as opposed to an educated guess) which gave them an unfair advantage whether it’s a shareholder who knows that the company concerned is about to post poor profits, a race goer who knows that the main opposition horse has been nobbled, or the politico who knows before everyone else the date that the PM is going to fix for the election. In each case they are objectively dishonest. Hope that helps.
I saw something similar. I am no lawyer but the fact folk have been fired and others ‘stepped back’ suggests there is a good amount of proof to hold up an allegation of cheating. But as Davies says - this is not for you and me. However, given the history of grift, lies and cheating of this government, you have to ask - does perception equal reality? Does the tone of Davies reply suggest a sense of understanding voters concerns? I’d say ‘no.’
One thing that's always surprised me is how people *still* refer to Rishi as competent or intelligent in some way. Is it the hair? Is it that he's got money? Is it that he wears a suit?
Or is he truly a smart, highly educated, effective man... being held back by the complete lack of quality to draw from?
I think he just sucks. He's clearly never been in a situation, until now, where things haven't worked out for him. Even if he *is* a smart, highly educated man... he's got no experience of the ups and downs of reality. He's so in-over-his-head and despite being 44 (didn't realize he was that young tbh!) he's got the level of actual experience of a 23 year old intern.
I am a retired media entrepreneur who worked in California. I’m also a limited partner in a VC firm. There is no way he would have survived in the circles I moved in but marrying into the Infosys dynasty was deffo his smartest move. The question is - does he have a pre-nup?
He’s the living embodiment of the Peter principle in action, except that I suspect that he was already out of his depth as Chancellor, and had there been a talent pool instead of a talent puddle he would probably still be treasury secretary. That same dearth of talent put him in number 10. When he was already functioning beyond his real capabilities. It’s nothing to do with his work ethic, which is apparently phenomenal, it’s simply that he doesn’t have the skill set. We have to pray that Starmer does.
It was striking how similar his reaction was to Johnson’s initial reaction to Partygate in the HoC- and just as unconvincing. I'd put money on him having put money on the Election. He's that stupid, entitled and greedy.
The one point I haven't seen addressed is - how did these people get to know so that they could place bets? The PPS and campaigns director, well possibly they were legitimately in the know (although the CD shouldn't have told his wife, who shouldn't have gone to the bookies) and these events call Sunak's judgement of who to trust into question. However, for the policeman to know surely suggests at best that Sunak was very careless to let him overhear or breached security by telling him. I think Sunak should be asked to explain this.
It also begs the question, what other information, classified government business possibly, has Sunak shared with people who shouldn't know?
The soil may have been made fertile by poor leadership, but somebody had dug in a huge quantity of entitlement as well. These people think they can be as useless and as venal as they like, and the world will still clear a way for them to succeed. Roll on July 4th
Williams is my mum and dad's MP in Montgomeryshire as soon as this news broke my dad guessed it was him "sycophantic little weasel would Bet his own nan for more power" said dad a former Inustry owner who is very well respected in Montgomeryshire so I think he's toast. They are all corrupt and absolutely lacking in morals and ethics and the more you dig the worse you uncover. As Taylor Swift said in Cardiff the other night Ych Y fi!. Have a lush holiday.
It is hardly mere incompetence that prompts leading members of the Tory party to act this way; instead, it's a belief in their own insulation from consequences, as a result of a surfeit of rich benefactors who will find them sinecures should they require such.
As for Starmer, don't mistake his deliberate targeting of Corbyn and the left for 'probity' or 'discipline'; it was absolutely about power and locking that up for his faction. Those were political moves, that will have political costs.
For decades, probably even centuries by now, from World War 1 generals to Cameron and Sunak, our public schools have turned out these wealthy, entitled men who are taught to believe it's their role in life to rule over the rest of us. And again and again, at the first sign of a crisis, it turns out that unsurprisingly they completely lack the skills to be able to cope. But, certainly for the more recent examples it's ok for them as it's all just a game and, as you say, life will go on just fine for them.
Typically excellent article by Mr Dunt, joining all the various dots to the real rot that in theory began under Johnson but actually has been evident since the expenses scandal. I’m old enough to remember when Tory scandals seemed to be mainly about sex but they seem to have massively expanded their repertoire in the last 20 years on so. Like Ian, I am not in the UK at the moment, I live in France, but am hugely invested in what happens in the UK because of friends and family and wider society. It’s a dank pool to wade in at the moment, between the outright lies of the Conservatives in relation to Labour’s plans and the verbal diarrhoea that Farage is spouting to poison the entire political debate. I have already voted and will watch with immense interest on July 4th.
What a way for this venal government to end. Who would have bet on it? (Of course it would be unfair to speculate when an investigation is ongoing). Happy hols!
I watched Sunak in the Leadership debate on QT. The same excuses and rude with it. It reminded me of the PPE scandal and Partygate. Deleting all those WhatApp messages with NO investigation as a result. (Why?) A smallish bet by his PPS seems small potatoes to me but only relatively. He’s looks really uncomfortable as if he’s always waiting to be found out. That’s the problem with lying so much, you need a good memory and not to lose focus. Dressing up in a decent suit and combing his hair is his idea of integrity. A veneer of respectability. Sometimes I think that’s why we expected better. His hair and suit. I mean he got Chancellor because of Cumming didn’t he after Sajid Javid resigned over Cumming a SPAD demanding to choose Javid the CHANCELLORS staff? So Sunak was a toady. Weak, lacking integrity and ambitious. He was in Johnson’s government so why did we think he would be better anyway? Hope? A desperate desire to end the madness?
“Starmer is returning the Labour Party to a party that’s reliably obedient to power. It’s very important to continue the elite program, pretty much across the spectrum, to destroy Corbyn and everything he stood for.
It was intolerable to the elite British opinion that there should be a Labour Party that actually responds to its constituents, a Labour Party that is concerned with the interests of working people and works for their benefit.”
The ‘legal investigation, therefore I’m ziplocked’ hasn’t prevented Philip Davies, long standing Tory MP for Shipley and long standing supporter of the gaming industry.
In an email exchange with me he said (among other things) “Inside information is not cheating by any definition of it. If that was the case there would be hundreds of people a day who bet on Horseracing arrested and prosecuted.
If the Police, CPS and Gambling Commission want to embarrass themselves by pursuing a prosecution which hasn’t the first chance of being successful then that is a matter for them.”
That’s the closest thing I’ve heard to a GFY reply.
Unsurprising from Davies. I've been a recipient more than once of his rude and dismissive replies to perfectly polite emails. It hasn't gone unnoticed by other people within Shipley - his rudeness has been brought up several times while I've been canvassing in the constituency.
Wonder what his betting accounts look like.
Using insider information isn’t cheating? Depends on the definition of “insider information”. If you have privileged information about a company it is if you use it to trade in shares in it, or to bet on horses if you know private things about the horse or the race which could affect the result. To suggest that using inside information that the election will be called at a particular time is not fraud is ridiculous.
And you know this how?
See the case cited below the ratio of which reads :
“In this 2017 case, a gambler who had used edge-sorting (a type of card counting) to win at baccarat in a casino said he was not cheating but deploying ‘a perfectly legitimate advantage.’ The Court held that he had, in fact, cheated, and that the casino could withhold his winnings, even though he did not consider his acts to be dishonest. In that case, the ‘essentials’ of cheating were held to “normally involve a deliberate (and not an accidental) act designed to gain an advantage in the play which is objectively improper, given the nature, parameters and rules (formal or informal) of the game under examination” (para 47).”
Objectively speaking all the examples I gave involved someone with inside knowledge (as opposed to an educated guess) which gave them an unfair advantage whether it’s a shareholder who knows that the company concerned is about to post poor profits, a race goer who knows that the main opposition horse has been nobbled, or the politico who knows before everyone else the date that the PM is going to fix for the election. In each case they are objectively dishonest. Hope that helps.
Informative piece about insider information and cheating -
https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/news/2024/general-election-2024-cheating-and-the-misuse-of-inside-information-in-gambling-what-the-law-says
I saw something similar. I am no lawyer but the fact folk have been fired and others ‘stepped back’ suggests there is a good amount of proof to hold up an allegation of cheating. But as Davies says - this is not for you and me. However, given the history of grift, lies and cheating of this government, you have to ask - does perception equal reality? Does the tone of Davies reply suggest a sense of understanding voters concerns? I’d say ‘no.’
One thing that's always surprised me is how people *still* refer to Rishi as competent or intelligent in some way. Is it the hair? Is it that he's got money? Is it that he wears a suit?
Or is he truly a smart, highly educated, effective man... being held back by the complete lack of quality to draw from?
I think he just sucks. He's clearly never been in a situation, until now, where things haven't worked out for him. Even if he *is* a smart, highly educated man... he's got no experience of the ups and downs of reality. He's so in-over-his-head and despite being 44 (didn't realize he was that young tbh!) he's got the level of actual experience of a 23 year old intern.
I am a retired media entrepreneur who worked in California. I’m also a limited partner in a VC firm. There is no way he would have survived in the circles I moved in but marrying into the Infosys dynasty was deffo his smartest move. The question is - does he have a pre-nup?
He’s the living embodiment of the Peter principle in action, except that I suspect that he was already out of his depth as Chancellor, and had there been a talent pool instead of a talent puddle he would probably still be treasury secretary. That same dearth of talent put him in number 10. When he was already functioning beyond his real capabilities. It’s nothing to do with his work ethic, which is apparently phenomenal, it’s simply that he doesn’t have the skill set. We have to pray that Starmer does.
If it helps, I am dutifully reading your work while on holiday 😎
It was striking how similar his reaction was to Johnson’s initial reaction to Partygate in the HoC- and just as unconvincing. I'd put money on him having put money on the Election. He's that stupid, entitled and greedy.
Welcome to Greece Ian, I hope you enjoy your stay.
The one point I haven't seen addressed is - how did these people get to know so that they could place bets? The PPS and campaigns director, well possibly they were legitimately in the know (although the CD shouldn't have told his wife, who shouldn't have gone to the bookies) and these events call Sunak's judgement of who to trust into question. However, for the policeman to know surely suggests at best that Sunak was very careless to let him overhear or breached security by telling him. I think Sunak should be asked to explain this.
It also begs the question, what other information, classified government business possibly, has Sunak shared with people who shouldn't know?
Very nicely put, Mr Dunt
The soil may have been made fertile by poor leadership, but somebody had dug in a huge quantity of entitlement as well. These people think they can be as useless and as venal as they like, and the world will still clear a way for them to succeed. Roll on July 4th
Williams is my mum and dad's MP in Montgomeryshire as soon as this news broke my dad guessed it was him "sycophantic little weasel would Bet his own nan for more power" said dad a former Inustry owner who is very well respected in Montgomeryshire so I think he's toast. They are all corrupt and absolutely lacking in morals and ethics and the more you dig the worse you uncover. As Taylor Swift said in Cardiff the other night Ych Y fi!. Have a lush holiday.
It is hardly mere incompetence that prompts leading members of the Tory party to act this way; instead, it's a belief in their own insulation from consequences, as a result of a surfeit of rich benefactors who will find them sinecures should they require such.
As for Starmer, don't mistake his deliberate targeting of Corbyn and the left for 'probity' or 'discipline'; it was absolutely about power and locking that up for his faction. Those were political moves, that will have political costs.
For decades, probably even centuries by now, from World War 1 generals to Cameron and Sunak, our public schools have turned out these wealthy, entitled men who are taught to believe it's their role in life to rule over the rest of us. And again and again, at the first sign of a crisis, it turns out that unsurprisingly they completely lack the skills to be able to cope. But, certainly for the more recent examples it's ok for them as it's all just a game and, as you say, life will go on just fine for them.
Jupp, to make the party electable and get out of this sectarian mode
Typically excellent article by Mr Dunt, joining all the various dots to the real rot that in theory began under Johnson but actually has been evident since the expenses scandal. I’m old enough to remember when Tory scandals seemed to be mainly about sex but they seem to have massively expanded their repertoire in the last 20 years on so. Like Ian, I am not in the UK at the moment, I live in France, but am hugely invested in what happens in the UK because of friends and family and wider society. It’s a dank pool to wade in at the moment, between the outright lies of the Conservatives in relation to Labour’s plans and the verbal diarrhoea that Farage is spouting to poison the entire political debate. I have already voted and will watch with immense interest on July 4th.
Succinctly captures the rotting stench of compromised scruples and values. Thanks.
What a way for this venal government to end. Who would have bet on it? (Of course it would be unfair to speculate when an investigation is ongoing). Happy hols!
I watched Sunak in the Leadership debate on QT. The same excuses and rude with it. It reminded me of the PPE scandal and Partygate. Deleting all those WhatApp messages with NO investigation as a result. (Why?) A smallish bet by his PPS seems small potatoes to me but only relatively. He’s looks really uncomfortable as if he’s always waiting to be found out. That’s the problem with lying so much, you need a good memory and not to lose focus. Dressing up in a decent suit and combing his hair is his idea of integrity. A veneer of respectability. Sometimes I think that’s why we expected better. His hair and suit. I mean he got Chancellor because of Cumming didn’t he after Sajid Javid resigned over Cumming a SPAD demanding to choose Javid the CHANCELLORS staff? So Sunak was a toady. Weak, lacking integrity and ambitious. He was in Johnson’s government so why did we think he would be better anyway? Hope? A desperate desire to end the madness?
Maybe no one more intelligent was interested in being his PPS
“Starmer is returning the Labour Party to a party that’s reliably obedient to power. It’s very important to continue the elite program, pretty much across the spectrum, to destroy Corbyn and everything he stood for.
It was intolerable to the elite British opinion that there should be a Labour Party that actually responds to its constituents, a Labour Party that is concerned with the interests of working people and works for their benefit.”
- Noam Chomsky